Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:19:44 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Graham 
To: Aussie Weather 
Subject: aussie-weather: Thunderstorms on Sunday?
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi everyone,
	I've just been looking at the NOGAPS model (sin!) and it seems to
pick up on the trough the Bureau are predicting for QLD extending down
into NSW which may bring thunderstorms.  What is getting me excited is
that, if the model is correct, Friday is just the beginning and it looks
even better on Sunday!  If you have a look, you'll see a gradual kink
developing in the 300Hpa jetstream over central Australia with more of a
northerly component into southern QLD and NSW corresponding to a "delta" 
or "right exit".  The so called "delta" region of the jet with upper air
divergence is often favoured for strong storms.  Surface winds are also
forecast to be northerly which would bring in moist, tropical maritime air
in the low levels (rather than the dry north-westerlies we've been having
lately that have produced only disappointment for storm spotters).  I
suppose I shouldn't get too excited by a model since Sunday is still a
long way off but we haven't a good storm since last summer down here in
Sydney (I certainly don't wish violent storms on anybody but, like
everyone here, I can't resist a good storm). 

- Paul.

---------------------------
Paul Graham
m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
----------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: kg5 at pop.syd.fl.net.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:16:25 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Eric 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sunday's Bushfires...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Just for the record. I hope this explains some of what can happen. Please
read it in the spirit in which it is written, that of Public Education
about the realities of bushfires in this country.

Before I get to the explanations, here's my qualifications to comment on
this. I first joined the Rural Fire Service (or Bush Fire Brigades as it
was then) in 1989. In my career as a volunteer firefighter, I have attended
in excess of 1,000 fires, including the 1993/94 Bushfires and a dozen other
serious "State of Emergency" situations from Sydney to the Queensland
border. I now hold the positions of Training Officer and Public Education
Officer for a Brigade in the Gosford area, just north of Sydney, the
busiest Shire in Australia. I am also Australian correspondant for Wildland
Firefighter Magazine, one of the largest magazines of its kind in North
America.

As far as I am aware, the hazard reduction was ignited on the Wednesday or
possibly thursday previous to the weekend. At that time the forecast was
for mild weather, with a chance of hot weather on Sunday but with storms
and rain expected mid-morning on Sunday.

For those who have never taken part in one, unless the area being burned is
very small, few fires are -completely- extinguished. For one, it is often
almost impossible to gain access to the whole of the area. Another problem
that is faced is the unknown number of dead/dying trees that are hollow.
These are called "candles" and can continue to smoulder for up to several
weeks afterwards. In America, following a fire, tree stumps could still be
seen smoking from under 2 meters of snow.

Normally the fire is blacked out around its perimiter and the interior is
allowed to burn itself out. By perimiter I refer to a rough standard of
about 10 meters. Again the reasons are several. One is again access.
Another is the safety of firefighters. "Candles" and other burned dead
trees create one of the most dangerous hazards that exist on the fireline,
and are often referred to as "widow-makers", because they can do just that.
Believe me, I've seen a couple of them at -very- close quarters and it is
something I prefer to avoid. If a candle is close to the perimiter of a
burned area, either it is watched until safe, or the tree is felled.

With candles, there are often small (or large) showers of sparks that issue
from the top from time to time. Normally these are carried by any
prevailing wind. In most circumstances this is only a few meters. However,
with days like Sunday, where we experienced wind gusts locally here of over
70km/h these embers can carry quite a distance. I have seen a fire start 20
km from the source of burning embers carried by the winds.

Hazard Reductions, when the tree-huggers let us do them, are normally
carried out in the cooler part of the year, with autumn and Spring being
the most favourable times, as the slightly warmer conditions (especially in
the Blue Mountains... brrrr) mean that the H.R. burn will be effective in
reducing the amount of fuels available to any future fire. Remember that we
are still in the middle of spring, following a very wet winter that caused
the majority of H.R. burns to be cancelled. It is very hard to light a fire
when it's pourning rain.

The forecast was, indeed, changed on Saturday to include the hot, dry
winds. Yes, it is possible that "something" could have been done. But what?
Pour a thousand men and women into the area to check each and every tree?
As I mentioned above, these things can lie dormant for a long time, well
insulated inside a dead tree, with little or no indication that they exist.
The only possible method of detection -might- be covering every square
meter with super-sensitive thermal imaging cameras, although none that I
have seen that are sensitive enough to detect a warm pocket inside a tree
that might only be the size of a milk bottle can be used to cover a very
large area. Even a few Hectares would take forever. The government, it
seems to we firefighters, has better things to do than give money to the
Rural Fire Service for firefighting tankers, let alone this kind of gear.

Although the fact there were two separate fires, some distance from each
other (I could see the smoke from here - 100km as the crow flies) seems to
point somewhere else, at least for one of the fires. For myself, I spent
Sunday attending fires lit by some kind-hearted soul who decided that it
would be amusing to give us something to do. 4 Fires, all deliberately lit.

Unfortunately there is no easy answer. It might have been caused by
something left oveer from a H.R. burn. It is equally possible that
something more sinister was at work. It is again equally possible that it
was a fluke like two power lines touching in high winds. 

All 70,000 RFS Firefighters are volunteers, like me. We do what we can,
when we can, with what we have. If someone would be so kind as to pay us
for the time, I am sure there would be 70,000 firefighters offering to
check every tree following every burn. Unfortunately this is only a fantasy
that exists inside our minds.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the people who are determined to build
their nice homes right on the edge of the bush because "there is such a
great view". Having nearly been killed a half-dozen times defending such
stupidity, I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever. I still fight
the fires, because that's what I do, but if a house, surrounded by trees,
built at the top of a ridge (fire travels faster uphill) overlooking a
thickly grown national park, with their gutters full of leaves, burns to
the ground, I shall be saddened of course, but I will never, not now, not
ever, accept any blame for it. You want your place to be safe from fire?
Build it somewhere sensible, not somewhere that screams out "Burn me! Burn
Me!". Until people learn that fire is a natural part of the Austrlaian
Bush, and that houses and bush, with its inevitable bushfires do not mix,
then this will keep on happening. If all else fails, ask a fireman before
you build it.

Cheers,

Eric J. Berry 
MIFireE, MRFSA, JP.
Training and Public Educaton Officer
NSW Rural Fire Service - The Bays RFB, Gosford 

At 23:24 10/19/98 +1000, you wrote:
>I would have thought so too - it surprises me that something was not done
>on Saturday when hot NW winds were forecast.
>- Paul G.
>
>On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, James Chambers wrote:
>
>> As soon as I heard a burn off was responsible for an out of control
>> bushfire, I thought - why the hell would anyone light a fire with low
>> humidity and high temps?  Even those at the time who lit the fire must've
>> thought that it seemed strange considering the conditions...
>> 
>> James from Bris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Graham 
>> To: Aussie Weather 
>> Date: Monday, 19 October 1998 23:11
>> Subject: aussie-weather: Sunday's Bushfires...
>> 
>> 
>> >On Sunday in the Blue Mnts. west of Sydney a bushfire probably sparked by
>> >a routine burn-off destroyed >250 hectares of bushland and threatened
>> >people's homes (ABC report).  I heard on tonight's news that the NSW rural
>> >fireservice, having been blamed, has passed on the blame to the Bureau of
>> >Meteorology for not accurately forecasting the potential hazard.  I guess
>> >there will always be someone who has to get the blame...
>> >- Paul G.
>> >
>> > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:
>> >
>> >                      majordomo at world.std.com
>> >
>> > with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
>> > message.
>> >
>> > -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>> >
>> 
>>  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>> 
>>  To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:
>> 
>>                       majordomo at world.std.com
>> 
>>  with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
>>  message.
>> 
>>  -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>> 
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>
> To unsubscribe from aussie-weather send e-mail to:
>
>                      majordomo at world.std.com
>
> with "unsubscribe aussie-weather your_email_address" in the body of your
> message.
>
> -----------------------jacob at iinet.net.au------------------------------
>
>
--
-------------------------------------------
Eric J. Berry API(S), MIFireE, JP
Justice of the Peace
NSW Rural Fire Service - Gosford
IRC Operator - Austnet IRC Network
Webmaster - www.fukngruvn.org
Australian Correspondant - Wildland Firefighter Magazine
-------------------------------------------
Ph: 0415 966 990 Fax: 02 4324 7648

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:37:33 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Graham 
To: Aussie Weather 
Subject: aussie-weather: Chaser Photo Updated...
Reply-Receipt: pgraham1 at extro.ucc.su.oz.au
Reply-Read: pgraham1 at mail.usyd.edu.au
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi everyone,
	I have updated the photo of some of us on Rooty Hill to include
some names (I have only left off one person who I apologise to for not
remembering his name).  If I have made any mistakes (eg.  If I have
mis-spelled anyone's name), please let me know. 
	Cheers,
		Paul.

----------------------------
Paul Graham
m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au
----------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: kg5 at pop.syd.fl.net.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 00:39:20 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Eric 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sunday's Bushfires...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Refer to my previous about the burn off bit.

The ToBan was in force from Midnight Saturday to Midnight Sunday. Nobody,
and I mean nobody, even teh Fire Service, is allowed to burn anything on a
ToBan day. Technically even lighting a match outside is illegal.



At 23:44 10/19/98 +1000, you wrote:
>Do you know if a Total Fire Ban was in force when the 'controlled burn-off'
>was started? I know one was issued but I wasn't sure when.
>
>- James

--
-------------------------------------------
Eric J. Berry API(S), MIFireE, JP
Justice of the Peace
NSW Rural Fire Service - Gosford
IRC Operator - Austnet IRC Network
Webmaster - www.fukngruvn.org
Australian Correspondant - Wildland Firefighter Magazine
-------------------------------------------
Ph: 0415 966 990 Fax: 02 4324 7648

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Originating-Ip: [203.55.196.243]
From: "Kevin Phyland" 
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: aussie-weather: Lifted Indices
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:29:21 PDT
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi, anybody,

I've been cruising the Allentown Weather site in the US and notice that 
they have Lifted Indices maps as a guide to possible severe weather. Is 
there some reason that Australia doesn't use it (like too few data 
points, perhaps) or do we actually use it?
Also can anybody tell me what it's based on?

Yours,
Kevin Phyland.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:46:55 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

just a note from the gold coast - nice and cool today, some dark clouds
approaching from the west! could get some heavy rain. one of them looked
really cool out my window, a nice looking chunk of cloud, if only i had one
of those computer cameras so yas could see it. i'll be on all day, so yous
will get up dates if anything interesting happens. a prety strong
sou-easter also!
see yas
steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Thompson" 
To: 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Thunderstorms on Sunday?
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:48:23 +1000
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Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Seeing I have to go back to work I'm sure that will happen. I to have been
looking at the NGP model and noted the potential.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Graham 
To: Aussie Weather 
Date: Tuesday, 20 October 1998 0:21
Subject: aussie-weather: Thunderstorms on Sunday?


>Hi everyone,
> I've just been looking at the NOGAPS model (sin!) and it seems to
>pick up on the trough the Bureau are predicting for QLD extending down
>into NSW which may bring thunderstorms.  What is getting me excited is
>that, if the model is correct, Friday is just the beginning and it looks
>even better on Sunday!  If you have a look, you'll see a gradual kink
>developing in the 300Hpa jetstream over central Australia with more of a
>northerly component into southern QLD and NSW corresponding to a "delta"
>or "right exit".  The so called "delta" region of the jet with upper air
>divergence is often favoured for strong storms.  Surface winds are also
>forecast to be northerly which would bring in moist, tropical maritime air
>in the low levels (rather than the dry north-westerlies we've been having
>lately that have produced only disappointment for storm spotters).  I
>suppose I shouldn't get too excited by a model since Sunday is still a
>long way off but we haven't a good storm since last summer down here in
>Sydney (I certainly don't wish violent storms on anybody but, like
>everyone here, I can't resist a good storm).
>
>- Paul.
>
>
>---------------------------
>Paul Graham
>m3052695 at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:45:24 +1000
From: Michael Scollay 
Organization: Telstra Strategy & Research
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Live weather chat via web
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Jacob wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> It's now possible to get on the undernet #weather channel via the web, just
> go to the page I made up to get there.
> 
> The page is:
> 
> http://www.iinet.net.au/~jacob/chat.html
> 
> It's still better to use mIRC or any other proper IRC client, but this is a
> good way to get on it if you are unable to use mIRC for some reason.
> 
> Try it out if you want.
> 
> Jacob

Thanks. Unfortunately, I sit behind a firewall from this address and
IRC stuff is not let through:-( It would be appreciated if the main
issues brought up in an IRC chat session are reported on in writing.
Also, at chat times, I am usually putting the kids to bed at home. As
a matter of managing internet addiction, we have no computer or
internet access at home yet.

Michael Scollay       mailto:michael.scollay at telstra.com.au

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:01:45 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

hey,
most of you will think i'm silly when i say this, but i really hope it
clears up tonight. but i would be really angry cos there is a meteor shower
on tonight/tomorrow morning! and i'm going back to grafton tonight for a
couple of days and was hoping to get some nice photos! damm this weather!!
bye, from gold coast!
steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul_Mossman at agd.nsw.gov.au
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: NSW_AG
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:09:46 +1000
Subject: aussie-weather: Re: Meteor Shower
Content-Disposition: inline
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com



Steve - lets hope it does clear! Where in the sky should we look?
Paul..........

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:30:49 +1000
From: Michael Scollay 
Organization: Telstra Strategy & Research
X-Accept-Language: en
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Sunday's Bushfires...
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Eric wrote an excellent report. Sorry to snip it:-(

[snip]

I have to agree with Eric since I've been a witness to many a Blue
Mountains fire and I am very sympathetic to way that -this land- was
managed by its original inhabitants before they were driven out by
invading Europeans. It's just taken us over 200 years to understand
some of the forces operating; Southern Oscillation, native flora
lifecycles/adaption and the changing climate that one of the world's
most ancient peoples came to live in comparative harmony with for
nearly 40,000 years. Off soap-box...

1) People must have rocks in their heads to build homes that become
fire traps. There is much that can be done to mitigate the risk of
getting incinerated but nothing that can be done to stop the worst
fire rages other than to try an prevent them in the first place.
Managed burn-off is essential. Back-burning in a fire storm means that
it's too late IMHO.

2) Some councils have brain-dead policies of tree preservation etc.
that result in excessive flamable material building up in reserves
adjacent to properties. Common sense dictates that mutual interest are
a priority to manage a reasonable buffer zone against properties in
volatile situations. These need to be worked on.

3) Water is so precious in this harsh, brown land that is currently
green and productive (it won't last). I've just been through an
unnecessary battle with council over a water tank that I wanted to
build to retain storm water. Trouble was they don't have a policy for
water tanks. They only have one for temporary detention tanks and
in-ground absorption disposal. What I am highlighting is the backward
thinking of these organisations.

4) Now the BoM really needs to get Medium Range Forecasting down to a
fine and detailed art. There are probably more suitable people in BoM
able to give MRF fire risk reports than me. However, I could copy the
mail that I sent last week highlighting the temperature gradient
predicted by NCEP MRF and that it would be a "memorable Southerly
Buster". I wasn't joking. Now I am a rank amateur, but I know enough
about MRF to have said early last week that Sunday would be an extreme
risk fire day. After all, the 850mb temperature predicted was 28
degrees for 00Z with an MSL pressure gradient to reckon with combined.
That is a hot nor'-wester in anyone's terms and getting that info is
almost free!

5) What 4) above highlights is more a general problem of poor
communications. Good communication means getting the right info into
the right organisations that can use it in a timely fashion. This is
where I come at logger-heads with current BoM policy of charging for
various services. This is an "anti-communication" policy with the only
long-term sufferers being the community at large. This is where
something like "aussie-weather" can really assist since it opens up
communication channels between interested parties, including those in
BoM. It would be good to get some better agreements with BoM and
interested parties to improve imformation flow so that incidents like
Sunday 18/10/98 are less likely to happen due to proactive rather than
reactive management.

Michael Scollay       mailto:michael.scollay at telstra.com.au

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:31:12 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

paul,
the shower is called the Orionids, so obviously they will be coming from
the orion area, in which 'the saucepan' is part of. the best time to view
it will be about 2 - 4 o'clock tomorrow morning! so you will have to be
pretty keen, i will be up all night to see what it will be like:) i think
by that time it will be very high in the sky! the average rate is about 20
an hour, doesn't sound like much! but they will be pretty bright and leave
some nice trails! they will look good on film, though!! happy viewing if
anyone will have clear skies!:)
see ya
steve from gold coast 
its cleared up a bit here now but still plenty of cloud

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "McDonald" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: shower
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:09:12 +1000
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Steve,
	I'm from Melbourne and I was wondering if we would be able to see anything
down here - that is if our 8/8ths cloud cover clears.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:28:13 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

sure! nearly everyone in the whole world will be able to see it! anyone
that can see the constellation orion will be able to see it. anyway, if we
miss out on this one due to clouds, there is always nov 17!! it will be
literally raining meteors! only comes around every 33 years!
see yas
steve from gold coast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "McDonald" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: Re: Nov 17
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:35:29 +1000
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Steve,
	Can you tell me a bit more about November 17 -what time?, where?, how many
per hour?etc.  I'm not a huge astrology fan but sounds interesting. 
Thanks.

----------
> From: steve baynham 
> To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
> Subject: 
> Date: Tuesday, 20 October 1998 13:28
> 
> sure! nearly everyone in the whole world will be able to see it! anyone
> that can see the constellation orion will be able to see it. anyway, if
we
> miss out on this one due to clouds, there is always nov 17!! it will be
> literally raining meteors! only comes around every 33 years!
> see yas
> steve from gold coast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: jacob at iinet.net.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:58:41 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jacob 
Subject: aussie-weather: Ideas to make the list better
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

Hi all,

The aussie-weather list has no been around for just over a month now and
I've been surprised by
the amount of interest we've had in it, and I never would have thought that
we would have as much as 40 people subscribed after only one month like we
have now, its been great! We've also had some really good dicussions so far.

I've also received some feedback by others on this list on how we should
make this list even
better!

Here are some ideas:

* less one liners back and forth
* encourage others to not reply to the list, but to individuals if there is
no benefit to most on the list - eg. it is not about weather, or it is a
specific request from someone about a PC question
* more emails with depth offering interesting reading to all

I agree with most of the feedback I've been getting and it would probably
be good to use some of these ideas, but remember, these are only ideas, we
don't have to use them.

Here in Perth right now (12:55pm WST), its sunny, not a cloud in the sky,
its 21.9C, winds ESE at 10km/h, 1028.4 hPA, and 32% RH.

The forecast is for 27C tomorrow, which would be our first day over 25C
since late 
August.

Jacob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: jacob at iinet.net.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:07:49 +0800
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: Jacob 
Subject: Re: aussie-weather: Live weather chat via web
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

At 10:45 AM 20-10-98 +1000, you wrote:
>Jacob wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> It's now possible to get on the undernet #weather channel via the web, just
>> go to the page I made up to get there.
>> 
>> The page is:
>> 
>> http://www.iinet.net.au/~jacob/chat.html
>> 
>> It's still better to use mIRC or any other proper IRC client, but this is a
>> good way to get on it if you are unable to use mIRC for some reason.
>> 
>> Try it out if you want.
>> 
>> Jacob
>
>Thanks. Unfortunately, I sit behind a firewall from this address and
>IRC stuff is not let through:-( It would be appreciated if the main
>issues brought up in an IRC chat session are reported on in writing.
>Also, at chat times, I am usually putting the kids to bed at home. As
>a matter of managing internet addiction, we have no computer or
>internet access at home yet.
>
>Michael Scollay       mailto:michael.scollay at telstra.com.au

Too bad you cant make the meetings, I'm sure some of us will keep anyone
who cant make it to the meetings updated on any important things we talk
about.

We had quite a good turn up last week and the weather discussion was great
with the extra people, the more we have the better, so for anyone who
hasn't tried it yet and you're on the net at about 9pm EST on Wednesday
night, try it out, its great fun talking live with other Australian weather
enthusiasts.

Jacob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:00:18 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

WOW man!!
these clouds look excellent! like a pink fluffy blanket becos of the
setting sun.  it is clearing up nicely for this meteor shower!
steve from gold coast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: bayns at nornet.nor.com.au
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:23:33 +1000
To: aussie-weather at world.std.com
From: steve baynham 
Sender: aussie-weather-approval at world.std.com
Reply-To: aussie-weather at world.std.com

this shower on nov 17th, will produce up to several thousand meteors per
hour!! no, that wasn't a typo! a potential meteor storm. it is called the
Leonids, so look towards the direction of Leo, you won't need to know where
it is cos the shooting stars will be as plain as day, ya can't miss it really!
steve - gold coast

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From: "dpn" 
To: 
Subject: aussie-weather: Best Storm You Have Seen
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:17:40 +1100
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Just wondering what's the best storm (most exciting) people subscribing to
aussie weather have ever seen. The best storm I ever saw was on Christmas
Eve 1978. I was living in Oakleigh in the SE suburbs of Melbourne at the
time. The day had been warm and humid top temp 28.8. The day started off
mostly overcast with a deck of Ac over the city. this cleared by late
morning and the afternoon was mostly sunny and humid. Some large Cu
developed during the afternoon, but there did not seem to be any threat of
storm at 6pm. when I recorded a temp of 26.7 Humidity 54%. A Humid east to
north east air stream had developed over the state and a trough of low
pressure was over western and central Victoria. At about 8pm I noticed some
large Cu and Cb towards the Nw. Checked the Radio lots of static indicating
lots of Lightning activity. went outside again at 8.30pm climbed up on the
roof of the house for a better view of the situation starting to get dark.
Large cb to the west and North west frequent   lightning  particularly to
the NW. Lightning was still bout 40kms away at this stage so no thunder
could be heard. 9.30pm storm was over the city still intenseifying.
spectacular display of frequent lightning with many cg flashes. The anual
Carols by Candelight was almost washed out. Had to get off the roof for
safety reasons and because heavy rain was starting to fall. Storm broke
over Oakleigh at 10.00pm and continued unabated for the next 70mins. The
sky was electric incessant lightning at least 100 flashes per minute like
looking at a strobe light. It dazzled  the eyes to look at it for too long.
Very heavy rain and flash flooding over most of Melbourne thousands of
Households including us blacked out. I recorded 39mm of rain. No Hail or
damaging winds. But as I am a lightning fan I rate this as the best storm I
personally witnessed. One other good storm I should mention was back in
July 1963 a very rare severe winter Thunderstorm. I have not witnessed a
winter storm like it since. It started about 9pm( I was only 11 years old
at the time). I noticed a lot of lightning to the Sw. Shortly after 9.30pm
the storm hit and continued unabated till 6am. Gale force winds frequent
lightning  Rain and Hail continued all night. 45mm fell in the city I
recorded 53mm. Went with my dad down to Richmond in the morning. The houses
and lawns in that area were white with Hail, still remember seeing a bloke
shovelling hail off the drive ways of a petrol station. Later that
afternoon me my brother and my mate Dave rode our bikes over to Caulfield
park were we surprised to see many large trees had been uprooted. The
VFL(now AFL) cancelled the entire round of League Footy. This is the last
time a round of Footy was cancelled.    Dane Newman